COMMENTS

31 responses to “Ask Joan: Do online dating men only want sex?”

1. This is simply how 99% of men are designed starting from puberty. It is all because of testosterone, most men have too much testosterone starting from puberty and after there 20’s they are trained to hunt for woman willing to have sex. Although, there are less than 1% of men that are not this way at all because since puberty they have always had a low amount of testosterone. This is how to spot a man like this. He is usually short, not masculine, has small neck, no visible Adams apple.

   Reply to Evelyn Clarence

2. I am completely amazed that most of the older women who have posted still do not understand that pair-bonding is primal in nature. While love is a conscious choice, attraction, chemistry, lust, and limerence are all primal in nature. These aspects of life are controlled by the same part of the brain that controls the autonomic system. We cannot will ourselves to be attracted to a person no matter how perfect he/she is on paper no more than we can hold our breath indefinitely. To further complicate things, men and women are driven to pair-bond for very different reasons. Any woman or man who fails to understand those differences is setting herself/himself up for disappointment and failure.

   The reality is that women are the gatekeepers to sex. Obtaining sex is no big deal for most women, which is why they think sex is cheap. Most women have been fighting off male advances since puberty. That is not remotely true for the average man. Women like to think that sex is easy for men to obtain, but that is only true for the top 20% of men.

   Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. Men experience almost no resistance to wanting commitment from an interested woman, but they have to work for sex. The lack of books written about obtaining commitment is close to nil for men whereas books on this subject targeted at women litter bookshelves. That difference alone should set off alarms in the average single woman’s mind.

   With that out of the way, let’s look at pair bonding from evolutionary psychology point of view. Women almost always date with the goal of establishing a long-term relationship. Sure, there are times when women are open to a fling, but they do not need to date to have a fling. Why do women date with the goal of a long-term relationship? It is quite simple. Compared to men, women are quite fearful creatures. They should be because the average man is 5″ taller and 50lbs heavier than the average woman. Plus, he carries most of the extra weight above his shoulders, so he has substantially more upper body strength.

   Put plainly, a woman’s most basic primal need is to feel safe and secure. That is why male height is a female mate primal selection trigger. The preference for men who are taller/larger than average is driven by a woman’s primal need to feel safe and secure from unwanted advances from other men. Contrary to what a lot of whining men say, this preference has nothing to do with socialization. The same thing can be said about a man’s status. How many women are willing to date down in social class? Not many! A man’s ranking within a social hierarchy is also a female primal mate selection trigger. These primal triggers exist for a woman’s survival and that of her offspring.

   Now, men do not have the same primal mate selection triggers because men have traditionally made their own way in addition to providing safety and security for women and children. Accept it or not, a man’s most basic primal need is to procreate the species. A heterosexual man’s top-two primal mate selection triggers are a woman’s bust size and her hip-to-waist ratio, which are visual cues to being able to nurse and survive child birth. Furthermore, a woman can only bear only a limited number of children at a time, but a man can impregnate multiple women at a time, so there is no instinctive drive to stay with just one woman. That practice is controlled in modern society via socialization.

   We are no longer cave dwellers, but primal instinct that was selected under pressure during that periods controls the pair-bonding dance to this day. It is all about ensuring the survival of our individual genes. A woman ‘s highest probability of passing on her genes is by ensuring the survival her offspring. A man’s greatest chance of ensuring the survival of his genes is to impregnate as many women as possible. By doing so, it does not matter if he does not provide safety and security or provisioning. He wins by sheer numbers.

   Let’s get something crystal clear. All, and I do mean all able-bodied men are driven to date by the desire to have sex with a fun partner. A relationship for most men is a side effect of seeking sex. To quote a popular dating coach, men look for sex and find love. For heterosexual men, that means sex with a woman, a gender for whom sex is easily obtained; therefore, it is cheap. The only older men who are dating without sex being the driver are men with health problems who are looking for a nurse with a purse. Few older women are interested in these men.

   Finally, women, and I do mean at least 80% of the women who are on dating sites focus their attention on the top 20% of the men on dating sites. They do so because they consider the other 80% of the men to be less than average when it comes to attractiveness (a statistical anomaly because only half of anything can be less than average). This data was presented by OkCupid Research a few years ago. I was clearly in the top 20% of men when I was on the dating sites from age 55 to age 57 (I fooled and around and fell in love so to speak, so that ended my dating site days). I went on over 100 meet-and-greets during that period and the number could have easily been at least double that figure if I had not grown to be incredibly selective (not to mention tired of meet-and-greets). Furthermore, I discovered that women who had clearly posted that they were not interested in “hooking up” or an FWB were more than willing to strip down to bare flesh on the first date with me (I am talking about unsolicited offers), so men are not the only gender that is guilty of wanting to hookup. The only difference between the genders is that men are far less selective when it comes to hooking up. My experience online was so radically different than that of my peer-age male single friends that I had to figure out why, which led to understanding that pair-bonding is primal in nature. It does not matter how old we get. Primal instinct is in control of who we find attractive. That is why we do stupid things when we are under the spell. For men, that means who they will pursue. Yes, the desire to pursue is primal instinct.

   Reply to An Older Guy

   1. i agree with all you wrote
      i wonder if you feel love or connection with women after sex or desire for continued interaction

      Reply to karen

   2. Additionally, good men that were in long term marriages where the sexual desires were not balanced, find themselves “hunting” for a more balanced sexual relationship after being widowed.
      With his sex drive clock ticking and maybe wanting to make up for lost time, he is up front about sexual desire from the start. This is his idea to ensure that the missing component from his former relationship, will be up front on a new commitment.

      Reply to Dale Wheeler

3. I was widowed just over a year ago and decided to try online dating for the first time. After 3 days of messaging, I decided it wasn’t for me as there were so many men who just went headlong into talking about sex. However I did continue messaging outside the site, someone who sounded very decent. We spoke on the phone and he sounded genuine. We arranged to meet for dinner that night (this is day 3 after I started online on dating site). He was very keen on me after dinner, said that I was better than I portrayed online etc. Full of compliments, but not at all creepy. All very charming and gentle. He wanted to meet again the next evening, so I agreed and he came round to my place for a couple of hours. We sat on the settee and chatted about all sorts of things, and we clicked. We had a cuddle and a kiss, and he said goodbye. He messaged me 3 times a day, and 3 days later came to see me again. We went out for dinner, came back to mine and “relaxed with Netflix”. One thing led to another, and he ended up staying the night. The next morning, he said he had to go, and we arranged that I’d go to his place to stay the next day. I never heard from him the rest of the day, nor the next, he never replied to any of my messages and he never opened them anyway. Then I just messaged and asked him if he still wanted me to come over, and he then very quickly replied that he was working and there was no point. That was the last I heard from him. This experience has left me feeling cheap and dirty, like a hooker. Never at any point did I think he was a conniving man, but in hindsight, he’d planned the whole thing. He was seriously gentle and lovely. But the way he just dumped me was heartless and cruel, to someone he knew was naive and vulnerable after losing my husband. And all for one night of sex? It is really a depraved society if men can only see women for one thing. I am worth more than that. But he made me feel otherwise.

   Reply to Karen

   1. My gosh, I have had the same thing happen to me! The manipulation is unreal. Thank you for sharing that. We are not alone.

      I have tried to be optimistic thinking there’s got to be someone out there for me, but I have been on this rollercoaster too many times and still, still am astonished at what men can do. They say women do it too, and I’m sure they do. But…come on. Speechless.

      Reply to Colleen

4. Sorry one more thing I saw the comment about COVID and that is a problem too I went on my first “Date” since COVID and he took took me back to his place and I was like I thought we were going to dinner? and he said sorry we cant because of COVID even though restaurants are open half capacity where I live. I just thought like he was using the COVID as a way to be cheap and creepy.

   Reply to Bridget Finn

   1. Online dating is horrible it is not only that the want sex , phone sex, and than get mad if you do not feel comfortable. Feel sometimes like a free porn opportunity. Send me sexy pictures….whaaat I don’t even know you. I am so dussapointed in men in their 50 and 60 that still want to play games. Grow up

      Reply to Helga Holmes

5. Not yet 60 though pushing it….but look ten years younger. Same experience. The last guy, who I was quite taken with at first, asked me for online sex in the first conversation….because COVID precludes the real thing, he said. Say what? You want me to WHAT? Nooooo…. I cannot imagine it without laughing hysterically. Do women actually do this? If so, why?!!! If we all said no, they’d have to up their game, eh? I think there are a lot of very shallow men out there, who are emotionally immature and afraid of true intimacy, which is physical, emotional and, possibly, intellectual. There are a few who aren’t, but it is so exhausting looking for them. Maybe better to invest time and energy in Lovehoney! Less complicated and, in my experience, more satisfying!

   Reply to Janet

6. I am a 63 year old widow, but I look much younger.
   Unfortunately lost my husband 25 years ago.
   I dated him 9 yrs and was married 8 years, total 17 yrs.
   A few years after his passing, met a man at my company. We dated, evrntually cohabitated.
   Were together 11 years total, left him after he cheated.
   For the past 11 years, have tried online dating.
   It is really disgusting. I agree 1000 percent.
   95% of men bring up sex or sexual referemces right away. Literally feels like men treated me like I was a prostitute. Always about sex, wanted intimate pictures before meetimg in person. Disgusting.
   I have had scammers, liars, married men, perverts, men only want hookups.
   Relationship, commitment, long term last thing these men want. They use dating sites as free porn sites.
   Women trying to compete, spoil men by posting provilocative pictures.
   Very few genuine people on dating sites.
   i deleted my account, so tired of it all.

   Reply to CM

   1. I am 66 years old. I have been in a few relationships since my divorce, and I consider myself fairly expert when it comes to on-line dating. I limit my search to the 58 to 70 age range. I have a number of things I call “tells” when it comes to a woman’s on-line dating profile. I am not saying they indicate character issues. Just “something”. My profile is very honest and straight forward. I make it clear that I am looking for a mate who enjoys travel, art, nature, and all sorts of social and educational activities. I am also clear that I am interested in a long term relationship with a woman who enjoys sex, and has a healthy, and adventurous sexual appetite. Someone who will be a giver as well as a taker. Someone who is comfortable with her own body, and enjoys being naked. From experience, a sexual relationship can easily turn into a romantic relationship. And that’s wonderful. But a romantic relationship that turns out to be a sexless one, is a tragic, hopeless heartache. Something to be avoided at all costs.

      You might think that is disgusting. But at our age there is so much going on with our bodies, I think it is important that we are honest with our partner, and with ourselves. We can’t always hide things behind makeup. We can’t hide the little crust spots, or moles, or our toenails. We can’t ignore our cramps, or aches and pains. We need to be prepared to invite a helping hand. We might need someone to put some cream on our back. We might want someone to take a pumice stone to our feet before we go for a walk in the city, or to a museum, or before we board a plane to Europe. We might all need a lot of things. Very natural things that some women might call disgusting. Maybe those same women who find a man’s preoccupation with sex disgusting. So I look for the “tells”.

      The “tells” I was referring to are the things that indicate to me that a woman places little importance on sexual desire. Someone who has left that part of her life behind. One of those “tells” is when a woman says she enjoys a glass of wine at the end of the day. And that’s okay. But why would a woman tell you she enjoys drinking. A glass of wine is the same as a shot of vodka. And two glasses of wine (which is almost a sure thing) is like two shots of vodka. I stand 5-11 and 194 lbs. If I have two shots of vodka I am impaired. Who wants to be with a woman who is impaired every night. How attentive is a woman going to be when she is impaired. I’ve been there before. I find that truly disgusting.

      I don’t have any doubt my profile statements will limit the number of women who contact me. I never contact a woman first, so it will probably be a long time before I have an on-line generated date. But I think the men who are out there offending women with their impatience have the same feelings I do. They have just decided not to tie their fate to time and tide. My advice is, have a little understanding and to just say no thank you. Or go for it. What do you have to loose. You won’t be giving anything away that you don’t have an unlimited supply of. And try thinking about this. When the time comes, which one of the guys you meet is going to be the one you ask to put cream on the rash you got from your depends. I am prepared. Are you?

      Reply to Albert Mazzucca

      1. Hi, Albert! What an interesting conversation you just put on this website. I think that the men that the above ladies were speaking about were definitely creeps and went to a lot of trouble to make sure that their conversation was creepy. You talk about the need for sex where they are looking for something more deeply than what you talk about . What do you think we should understand about what you said is you think some of the women just because they ask for a glass of wine or appreciate a glass of wine at the end of the day makes them impaired? I don’t think so. So to what you have stated above I think you’re way off when it comes to women and what they’re looking for. Although we do you know now that what you were looking for is clearly stated in your comment. I say you can find a gentleman online who is looking for more than “putting cream on your rash you just got from your Depends.” Lol! Best wishes and “No thank you.”

   2. I wish I’d read all these comments before going online. It makes one lost trust of all men, but I’m sure there are genuine men out there waiting for us. I just don’t know where.

      Reply to Karen

7. To the original poster:

   I cannot speak for all men, but most men under 50 (like me) probably share my opinion on the matter, which is this: do not “seriously date” any woman over 35, but if she is hot regardless of age, sex is definitely “on the table”. As far as I am concerned, your “male friend” was telling you the truth (so maybe you should get out there and “get it on” instead of worrying about being in a relationship).

   Reply to Ron

8. I think this is happening at all ages. I’m 43 and found this site via Google when trying to see if my experience of dating apps was normal……full of men looking for free prostitute replacements even if they say they are looking for a “serious relationship”. No conversation skills, no apparent interest in meeting up unless its for sex, no questions to find out who I am and no shame at asking detailed questions right off the bat. I asked someone once whether he would walk up to someone in a bar, say hello and then straight away ask if they liked doggy style and drop their trousers to show them their crotch. He admitted probably not but didn’t see why the same thing by writing wasn’t actually any better. One person that I actually met, liked and did sleep with then told me he wasn’t ready for a relationship…..doesn’t stop him getting in touch every once in a while to see if he can “drop round”. I told him after the 1st encounter like this, when it became blatantly obvious it was purely a booty call, that I felt like a free hooker. He was embarrassed and apologized. A few weeks later he asked me for dinner to make up for it. He pretty much jumped me after the first sip of the pre- dinner drink so once again only looking for sex and now lying to get it. Told him I wasn’t interested and just yesterday (after a couple of months) he’s back asking if I’m around. Really??!! This type of thing has happened with a couple of people now and I’ve pretty much lost faith in the male species (or at least the ones online). :( A couple of friends have had similar experiences so I’m not the problem….. totally fed up too!

   Reply to Sharon

9. Was a good read. Appreciate how you brought in the insights and all that. Also appreciate the fact that you reply to your readers so efficiently. However there are other sites you can use for these purposes.

   Reply to fishfoot

10. I used online dating in a way to break out of my loneliness. I am/was mid sixties and I met many women online. I am intelligent and capable of realising that a woman needs to be seduced. Sex comes later and for me only once a bond of trust, friendship and respect has been developed. But too many of the women I dated thought too much of themselves. Don’t publish 20 year old photos, be realistic, if you are fat and wrinkly don’t expect Brad Pitt or George Clooney to turn up.

    Well I met one beautiful woman and after a few dates we had sex and it was very good and I fell in love and proposed – big mistake – after we married sex and pleasantness stopped completely. I was utterly conned by her seeming normal and loving and it cost a lot emotionally and financially to escape from the horror of abuse and physical assaults.

    A few months after that disaster with a decree nisi I started again slightly wiser.

    After a few dates I realised that most middle aged and older but still sexually attractive women live in a fantasy world about their own attractiveness. They had gym memberships but never used them talked about themselves as if they were 30 something, drank too much, and thought they were God’s gift to the world rather than being like the men the same age – old has beens or never weres.

    So get some realism. get fit, sex comes easily to fit people. Lose a few kilos, pump some iron, burn calories, wear tight pants and flaunt your body. Many men on dating sites are fat bald losers too cheap to hire a professional, ignore them.

    As it happened after a couple of months I found a wonderful woman through eHarmony, a widow with grief she needed to work through. So listening, was my seduction technique, helping with legal crap and lying lawyers. After several dates and three months of online messaging we finally took a holiday together in the same hotel but separate rooms. We had the most amazing sexual encounter and now a year later and great sex we are steadily getting together, helping each other with blind spots in life skills. Today she asked me to move in.

    So my advice is try seeing yourself as others may see you, look for the character beneath the words and images. Hang in for the right person and it will happen. No part of life is easy, so work at dating as you would at any other skill.

    Life is good…..

    Reply to Frank Lepave

    1. I used Ok cupid also. It’s truly full of men who are just looking for sex and lack moral principle. I met a guy online that seemed descent at first! We chatted for a while, then text. I should have paid attention when he said we can meet over each other’s houses on the first phone call. I said it’s not gonna happen. He seemed a little upset, but we continued talking. We met for smoothies, then afterward, he invited me over his place again. I refused and he was clearly upset. He then started texting and calling less frequently. Finally he admitted he is just looking for sex. Not love, marriage, or family. He even said, he doesn’t see how going to a strangers home is odd..He apparently sleeps around a lot because it makes him feel “liberated” That’s his life and choice. I want love not lust. I am so glad he is gone.He was strange.

       Reply to Karla

       1. I have been online dating for a few years and it don’t seem to be the same anymore the men was a little bit more patients and understanding now idont know or understand what had happen between back than and now the men now are so inpatient and all is what on their mind is sex like teenage school boys and they lie in their profile about what they are looking for in a relationship and they are not serious about anything and they can’t hold a decent conversation in their texting or online date sites emails its always about sex like the world is coming to an end they don’t even ask you out on a date anymore either its such a sad situation all away around the internet date sites they treat women online like bookers and one night stands the men need to grow up and start treating the women more respectful and they need to start being more responsible for their actions

    2. Very informative and like it really is today. Thanks for the encouraging words.

       Reply to CD

11. I have been a widower for twelve years, I concur with Joyce. As she has those experiences with men, I have this with women. I am conservative, value family life, morals, decency and manners. I have tried several dating sites to no avail, either the women are non existent or they disappear into thin air.

    I am educated and own my own house, are debt free and are in exceptionally good health, I don’t drink, smoke or do drugs. I have no tattoos or rings on my body. I have come to the conclusion that many dating agencies need to vigorously check or vet the people they let onto their site/s. Some profiles seem dubious to me.

    I too have given up on finding a decent female partner and are not holding my breath in ever finding someone decent, to have a coffee with, meal or a reasonable conversation.

    I wish you well Joyce in finding a decent partner who likes you for whom you are and not see you as a sex toy.

    Best wishes,

    Peter

    Reply to Peter

    1. The women who write you off must be shallow or prefer “bad boys,” but to me, you sound ideal. I wish you well, Peter.

       Reply to Sylvia Biu

    2. EXACTLY! No one seeks to be viewed as a sex toy!

       Reply to Your Mom

    3. You’re rare!!

       Reply to Jeanne

12. My comment. I don’t need sites. I go with a LADY and I’m just happy with her friendship. We met through another friend and we’ve gone together almost 3 years.

    Physical doesn’t enter the picture.

    Reply to Martin

13. Over a four year period after the second marriage ended I opted for answering great descriptions of men wanting women in the newspaper.
    After four years of miserable experiences I quit that route. Though each prospect took me out to lunch, (I was pretty, dressed well),
    the male never once commented on my person, my looks, my anything! Talked all about themselves. One wanted sex with me 3x before taking me on a cruise for a month. Scratched that. Wanted to see if we were compatible, in 3 tries? Others were just not right. One I went for another date at night. When I asked to bring me to my car after dinner, he drove in opposite direction. He wanted me at his home for a drink. I had told him I needed time and other meetings to determine something serious. He called again. Could we take a walk in a park? Fine. Sat down to enjoy the view. Next thing I knew his tongue was in my ear!! That ended that! Sadly, all said wives died of cancer. Perhaps they just never decided to grow themselves and leave their selfish, self-centered men?

    Other dates sex was to be the end result after dinner. When I said I liked him, wanted to get to know him, wanted a little time before being intimate well, never heard from those 5 again. Gave up. Several years later tried online. Each time man apologized…looking for someone 30 years younger,,slim, etc. I described myself as intelligent, honest, very attractive, avid reader, great conversationalist, loved nature, a good listener. No, they want youth and sex. pretty sad.

    Gave up. Its been many years. No opportunities. Am told to color my hair. Fine, would he like to pay for it and constant upkeep?
    Figured since I believe in Destiny, if its meant to be I have warmth, friendship, communication with a man at my age then it will occur.
    Meanwhile, I don’t hold my breath.

    Reply to Joyce

    1. The beauty of friendship between a man and woman is that it could lead anywhere, or it could just remain a beautiful friendship. Who doesn’t need friends? But if friends become lovers and it doesn’t destroy what they had, what could be better? That’s the best of both worlds!

       Reply to Sylvia Biu

14. I find her male friend’s ideas a bit outdated and maybe a bit unaware of what is going on out there. There are men out there who still will give women of a mature age some attention but she might need to widen her pool of men. Younger men or men who wouldn’t normally be her type or whatever it takes to widen her pool. At 62 a younger man would most likely be a man in his 50s. Men want women who are still interested in sex too. It a plus.

    Reply to sehj

    1. Not everyone has to accept or be in step with current trends. We don’t all have the same values. Some people even still HAVE values, despite ‘what’s going on out there,’ much of which I want nothing to do with. As we don’t “live by bread alone,” neither do humans live by sex alone, which separates us from animals.

       Reply to Sylvia Biu

    2. I hear you, Joyce. I also find, sadly, that men are more superficial and shallow than we are. We are more likely than they are as women to accept a belly that hangs over a belt, jowls, a receding hairline, weakness, a slow gait, you name it. But we must look forever 21.

       They really don’t care if we are intelligent; just that we’re open to sex. That sounds terrible and isn’t true of all men. But unfortunately, those who aren’t that way aren’t the ones out there looking, it seems. They aren’t the ones who won’t give a woman who has a mind and is a great conversationalist the time of day. The men who have depth, values, patience, and are willing to give friendship a try before intimacy, are taken.

       Many people are of the view that because we’re of a certain age that we don’t have the luxury of time, that we’re supposed to live our golden years for pleasure. Spiritually speaking, I believe that’s a mistake. There are principles I held to in my youth that I don’t believe now is the time to let go. Speaking personally, at my age (though one can die at any time regardless of age), I wouldn’t want to meet my Maker (depending on whether one believes, as I do, in a God that demand that we comport ourselves in certain ways) when I’ve been behaving like a 14-year-old in heat. I’d rather just age gracefully, alone if need be, than submit to the desires of men who are out for immediate pleasure, not something substantive and durable.

       Reply to Sylvia Biu

       1. I totally agree with you and have had men only flat out ask me for sex or describe what they’d like to do to me in bed. I’ve also been ghosted three times after barely getting two sentences in when texting with those men. I guess someone else’s photo must have suddenly appealed to them more. I’ve also had three scammers try to get money out of me after lying about themselves, I cringe when thinking about these experiences and wish it was like it was back in the early 80’s when men didn’t mind going out and buying you a drink. I can’t stand being treated like an online hooker!